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-From: intrigeri <intrigeri@boum.org>
-To: Isis! <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-Subject: AGPL library, really?
-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 17:38:46 +0000
-
-Hi isis,
-
-I see on https://pypi.python.org/pypi/gnupg that you released this
-library under AGPLv3. Is this correct?
-
-If it is, then you might be interested to have a look to this long
-ongoing thread on debian-devel mailing-list where I've seen explained
-(by people I trust on this topic) that AGPLv3 is really not well
-suited for libraries -- to start with, quite some of its terms are
-ambiguous when one tries to apply them to a library:
-https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00031.html
-
-Cheers,
--- 
-  intrigeri
-  | GnuPG key @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/intrigeri.asc
-  | OTR fingerprint @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/otr.asc
-
-
-From: isis agora lovecruft <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-To: intrigeri <intrigeri@boum.org>
-Subject: Re: AGPL library, really?
-Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2013 04:20:13 +0000
-
-Hi intrigeri!
-
-intrigeri transcribed 2.3K bytes:
-> I see on https://pypi.python.org/pypi/gnupg that you released this
-> library under AGPLv3. Is this correct?
-
-Yes, that it correct.
-
-> If it is, then you might be interested to have a look to this long
-> ongoing thread on debian-devel mailing-list where I've seen explained
-> (by people I trust on this topic) that AGPLv3 is really not well
-> suited for libraries -- to start with, quite some of its terms are
-> ambiguous when one tries to apply them to a library:
-> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00031.html
-
-Okay, thanks!
-
-/me reads…
-
-I think this message better describes why AGPL is bad for libraries:
-https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00041.html or, at least, I
-understood that one better than the first.
-
-I certainly do not want to make problems for Debian, and now that a bunch of
-Tor, LEAP, CryptoParty, and Freebox projects, and perhaps soon Pip too, will
-be depending on this, I *really* don't want to make anyone else's license hell
-worse.
-
-Attached is an email from leap@lists.riseup.net where we had fisticuffs over
-licensing opinions, wherein I explained my preference for AGPL for
-everything. Essentially, I do not want people/corporations/etc. to use my work
-in a closed source application and then potentially make changes to patch
-found vulnerabilities without contributing those patches back to the main
-codebase.
-
-Though, you're correct, this doesn't make sense for a library, as a
-closed-source web-service frontend to this Python module likely isn't going to
-get anyone exploited except the person running the service. So it doesn't make
-as much sense.
-
-Do you know if it is okay for me to re-license it as regular GPL?
-
-Do you have any advice on which of GPLv(2|3)(\+)* that I should use?
-
-Thanks for pointing this out so quickly before it caused trouble, by the
-way. :)
-
---
- ♥Ⓐisis agora lovecruft
-_________________________________________________________
-GPG: 4096R/A3ADB67A2CDB8B35
-Current Keys: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/isis.txt
-
---Attachment 1--
-    Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 04:13:56 +0000
-    From: isis agora lovecruft <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-    To: micah <micah@riseup.net>
-    Cc: leap@lists.riseup.net
-    X-GPG-Public-Key-URL: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/isis.txt
-    X-Louis-Lingg: In this hope do I say to you I despise you. I despise your
-     order, your laws, your force-propped authority. Hang me for it!
-    Subject: Re: [leap] license
-
-    micah transcribed 1.3K bytes:
-    > Tomas Touceda <chiiph@riseup.net> writes:
-    >
-    > > On 05/13/2013 05:32 PM, elijah wrote:
-    > >> if you have any wisdom or opinions regarding the ever joyful and
-    > >> uncontroversial topic of free software licenses, then please deposit
-    > >> said wisdom or opinions in this wiki:
-    > >>
-    > >> https://we.riseup.net/leap/license
-    > >>
-    > >> in a nutshell, we need to decide on a license for the client.
-    > >
-    > > Does anybody have license knowledge a priori? Or should I get started
-    > > reading licenses?
-    >
-    > I'm supposed to have a more than zero knowledge of what constitutes free
-    > licenses due to my debian training, and debian is world-renknowned for
-    > having a particularly nasty debian-legal mailing list where licenses are
-    > chewed up and spit out... but I personally hate the topic and tend to
-    > avoid it as much as possible.
-    >
-    > So basically my opinons are:
-    >
-    > 1. no license that is incompatible with the DFSG[0] (debian free
-    > software guidelines) - it seems like we are probably in agreement about
-    > this?
-
-    ACK
-
-    > 2. BSD multi-claused licenses and MIT are confusing and annoying, so I
-    > tend to think they should be avoided due to this
-    >
-
-    ACK
-
-    > 3. openssl derived works require granting an exception with GPL licenses
-    > (an exception is trivial), so I prefer gnutls code where possible
-    >
-
-    ACK
-
-    > 4. it seems weird to make things AGPL that aren't webapps
-    >
-
-    I started release everything I could AGPLv3 three years ago, after a
-    conversation with some other activist free-software devs:
-
-        Me: "I want a license which says 'If you are part of any governing body or
-        corporation which contracts to any private or public military entity, then
-        you should go fuck youself. And no, you cannot use my software -- I will
-        sue your pants off.'"
-
-        Them: "Isis, that is silly, and even na=C3=AFve. Universities are libraries are
-        often 'part of governing bodies', you don't want to exclude them, do you?
-        And also, you're like not going to see the blobs your code is included
-        in...it will get privately installed on custom military and law
-        enforcement hardware, and when they're done with it it'll go and rot
-        outside on a base or in a police confiscation parking lot somewhere."
-
-        Me: "Hum. I hate talking about licenses anyway."
-
-        Them: "Yeah, it sucks. But it's important for us to take this seriously,
-        because the tools we're working on have the potential for helping us
-        better organise at protests, as well as better help the cops kettle us
-        into paddy wagons." [one of the tools was a crisis mapping thing]
-
-        Different one of them: "Perhaps you both should read AGPL, and see if that
-        helps. I don't think using law against them is going to work, because we
-        can't assume they will play by the rules, but if we're arguing licenses
-        anyway..."
-
-    AGPL also seems useful when it seems possible that shady closed-source
-    startups are going to add a fancier UI or other feature to your code, and then
-    market it. This is especially worrying, not because they are "stealing users",
-    but because it's never clear if vulns discovered in your own code have been
-    fixed in theirs and vice versa. Or, it could get used in way that is
-    dangerous, or that it wasn't meant for. (For example, there is currently a
-    concern that a certain shell company is going to use OONI's code on these
-    little android-system-on-a-USB dongly thingies...and there are certain dangers
-    with Tor on Android that these people either don't understand or have no
-    intention of warning users about.)
-
-    Anyway. There is my argument for AGPL.
-
-    Though I also hate these discussions, don't care about laws, think reformism
-    is bunk, WTFPL is the only sane LICENSE, and all that jazz, so I'm going to go
-    stand over there ----------------------------------------------------------->
-    and watch everybody else duke it out. :)
-
-    --
-     ♥Ⓐ isis agora lovecruft
-    _________________________________________________________
-    GPG: 4096R/A3ADB67A2CDB8B35
-    Current Keys: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/isis.txt
---End Attachment 1--
-
-From: intrigeri <intrigeri@boum.org>
-To: Isis! <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-Subject: Re: AGPL library, really?
-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 18:30:46 +0000
-
-Hi isis,
-
-isis agora lovecruft wrote (07 Jul 2013 04:20:13 GMT) :
-> I think this message better describes why AGPL is bad for libraries:
-> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00041.html
-> or, at least, I understood that one better than the first.
-
-TBH, I've pointed you at the beginning of the thread because I was too
-lazy to go fetch the best email in there. I'm glad it helps anyway.
-
-> Do you know if it is okay for me to re-license it as regular GPL?
-
-I've just re-read a bit to confirm, and my conclusion is that: yeah,
-as the sole copyright holder (is this the case?) you can freely
-re-licence to whatever you want.
-
-> Do you have any advice on which of GPLv(2|3)(\+)* that I should use?
-
-I usually do GPL-3+, but I would not be able to defend it seriously
-against v2 or v2+.
-
-> Thanks for pointing this out so quickly before it caused trouble, by the
-> way. :)
-
-Np.
-
-Cheers!
---
-  intrigeri
-  | GnuPG key @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/intrigeri.asc
-  | OTR fingerprint @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/otr.asc
-
-From: isis agora lovecruft <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-To: intrigeri <intrigeri@boum.org>
-Subject: Re: AGPL library, really?
-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 09:24:12 +0000
-
-intrigeri transcribed 2.6K bytes:
-> isis agora lovecruft wrote (07 Jul 2013 04:20:13 GMT) :
-> > Do you know if it is okay for me to re-license it as regular GPL?
->
-> I've just re-read a bit to confirm, and my conclusion is that: yeah,
-> as the sole copyright holder (is this the case?) you can freely
-> re-licence to whatever you want.
-
-Hey intrigeri,
-
-I've decided to re-license with your recommendation of GPL3+. Is it okay to
-credit you and/or publicly point to these emails as the basis for the
-rationale for the switch?
-
---
- ♥Ⓐ isis agora lovecruft
-_________________________________________________________
-GPG: 4096R/A3ADB67A2CDB8B35
-Current Keys: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/isis.txt
-
-From: intrigeri <intrigeri@boum.org>
-To: Isis! <isis@patternsinthevoid.net>
-Subject: Re: AGPL library, really?
-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 22:33:35 +0000
-
-Hi isis,
-
-> Is it okay to credit you and/or publicly point to these emails as
-> the basis for the rationale for the switch?
-
-Feel free to credit me if you wish, but I certainly don't feel it's
-necessary.
-
-I feel a bit lazy to read this thread again to check if it's fine to
-publish stuff from there, so if you don't mind, I'd rather skip this
-part ;)
-
-Cheers,
---
-  intrigeri
-  | GnuPG key @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/intrigeri.asc
-  | OTR fingerprint @ https://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/intrigeri/otr.asc